Welcome
to Ask the Minister - an online interactive forum that allows you to
put questions to UK officials visiting the United States. When a chat
is announced, questions can be submitted online and will be answered
directly by the official.
Sir
Nicholas Stern was chief economist of the World Bank from 2000-2003.
While working for the UK Treasury in 2005, then-Chancellor of the
Exchequer Gordon Brown commissioned him to lead a major review of the
economics of climate change, to understand more comprehensively the
nature of the economic challenges and how they can be met, in the UK
and internationally.
Published in October 2006, the Stern Review on the Economics of Climate Change,
the most comprehensive review every carried out on the subject, gained
immediate and world-wide attention as an authoritative perspective on
the economic challenges and opportunities presented by our changing
global climate.
In
June 2007, Sir Nicholas returned to the London School of Economics and
Political Science where he had previously taught, becoming the first
holder of the IG Patel Chair at the LSE Asia Research Centre. In
addition to his myriad academic duties, he continues to engage with
audiences around the world on behalf of the UK government, for whom
tackling climate change is a key priority.
View the Q&A transcript below:
Sir Nicholas Stern says:
Hello. I’m Nicholas Stern, author of the Stern Review on the Economics
of Climate Change. I’ll try and get through as many of your questions
as I can in the time I have.
Cherry Marcellus, Colorado: What in your opinion is the single biggest challenge in the climate change debate?
Nicolas Stern replies:
Cherry, climate change is the greatest market failure the world has
seen. It is an externality that goes beyond those of ordinary
congestion or pollution, although many of the same economic principles
apply for its analysis. This externality is different in four key ways
that shape the whole policy story of a rational response. It is:
global; long term; involves risks and uncertainties; and potentially
involves major and irreversible change.
Correspondingly
action must be multilateral. Any one country is only part of the
problem. But the behaviour of each country will determine whether the
collective response is sustained and effective. Further, it will be far
easier to take policy forward in one country if other countries move
together.
I am optimistic having done the Review
that we have the time and the knowledge to act. But only if we act
internationally, strongly and urgently. Achieving this is clearly a
significant challenge.
Noel
Gladstone, MTVN Latam Miami Beach, FL(a British citizen living in
hurricane central, South Florida, for three years): What role can we
play as individuals to alleviate the effects we have on our climate?
And what role can governments adopt with the help of their citizens to
also help alleviate climate change?
Nick Stern replies:
Thanks for the question Noel. What’s going to happen to our climate in
the next 20 or 30 years is already determined. It’s, our actions in the
next 20 or 30 years which will affect what happens in the decades that
come after that. So when we talk about action to reduce GHG emissions
we’re talking about alleviating the effects of climate change in the
second half of this century and of course, into the next century and
beyond when we might not be around but our grandchildren will. However,
the fact that we are too late to have an effect on the climate in the
near future or even our lifetimes is not a reason to stall on
mitigation action now for the sake of future generations.
As the Review
discussed, reducing greenhouse gas emissions (mitigation policy) rests
on the voluntary decisions of nation states. It is national governments
that have the power to introduce binding legislation and other policy
instruments to shape private markets and alter patterns of investment
and consumption. But an international framework of formal and informal
agreements for co-ordination of these national policy decisions, firmly
linked to a long-term global goal, has very strong advantages over a
purely domestic approach.
Three
elements of policy are required for an effective global response. The
first is the pricing of carbon, implemented through tax, trading or
regulation. The second is policy to support innovation and the
deployment of low-carbon technologies. And the third is action to
remove barriers to energy efficiency, and to inform, educate and
persuade individuals about what they can do to respond to climate
change.
Where
individuals can make the greatest impact on reducing GHG emissions is
on improving energy efficiency, changing demand, and through the
adoption of clean power, heat and transport technologies. By turning
off electrical appliances rather than keeping them on standby,
turning off lights when the room is empty and unplugging mobile phone
chargers when they are not being used, individuals and families can
reduce emissions as well as save money on fuel bills. Similarly, car
sharing schemes and opting for public transport or walking over taking
your car where possible can also reduce emissions per capita. If even a
fraction of the population of a country like the US would adopt such
practices, the cumulative effect on emissions reductions would not be
insignificant.
However,
reducing the risks of climate change requires collective action. It
requires co-operation between countries, through international
frameworks that support the achievement of shared goals. It requires a
partnership between the public and private sector, working with civil society and with individuals.
Adaptation
is the only response available for the impacts that will occur over the
next several decades before mitigation measures can have an effect.
However,
it is difficult for individuals to take action in developed countries
such as the US to reduce the impacts of impending climate change on
their own lives. However government has a role to provide a clear
policy framework to guide effective adaptation by individuals and firms
in the medium and longer term. There are four key areas:
•
High-quality climate information will help drive efficient markets.
Improved regional climate predictions will be critical, particularly
for rainfall and storm patterns. • Land-use planning and
performance standards should encourage both private and public
investment in buildings, long-lived capital and infrastructure to take
account of climate change. • Government can contribute through
long-term polices for climate-sensitive public goods, such as natural
resources protection, coastal protection, and emergency preparedness. •
A financial safety net may be required to help the poorest in society
who are most vulnerable and least able to afford protection (including
insurance).
James
Wrightsman, New York: Here in the USA there are many people who doubt
that climate change is actually happening. As someone who is frustrated
and worried that these doubters are hampering our reaction to this
looming disaster, I am curious if there is a "magical bullet" that
would convince them now to put their efforts into combating climate
change?
Nick Stern replies:
James, those who deny the importance of strong and urgent action on
climate change essentially offer one of, or a combination of, the
following arguments.
First,
there are those who deny the scientific link between human activities
and global warming; most people, and the vast majority of scientists,
would find that untenable given the weight of evidence.
Second,
there are those who, while accepting the science of anthropogenic
climate change, argue that the human species is very adaptable and can
make itself comfortable whatever the climatic consequences; given the
scale of the outcomes that we now have to regard as possible or likely
under business-as-usual (BAU), this must be regarded as reckless.
Finally, there are those who accept the science of climate change and
the likelihood that it will inflict heavy costs, but simply do not care
much for what happens in the future beyond the next few decades; most
would regard this as unethical.
The
basic question is whether it is worth paying to avoid the additional
risks of higher emissions. In the Review we estimate the cost of
avoiding these risks at 1% of GDP per year and the costs of not acting
of between 5% and 20% of GDP per year. We should recognise the balance
of risks. If the science is wrong and we invest 1% of GDP in reducing
emissions for a few decades, then the main outcome is that we will have
more technologies with real value for energy security, other types of
risk and other types of pollution. However, if we do not invest the 1%
and the science is right, then it is likely to be impossible to undo
the severe damages that will follow.
Lorenna
Russell-Shalev, New Mexico: Taxation on airline transportation was
recommended unexpectedly by the Tories while I'm visiting my mother in
England. This seems like an idea worth passing on to the Americans PLUS
so much British experience on public transport. Also I saw small
electric cars in London. Can these work in the States and be exported?
Nick Stern replies:
Lorenna, an essential element of climate change policy is carbon
pricing. Greenhouse gases are, in economic terms, an externality: those
who produce greenhouse gas do not face the full consequences of the
costs of their actions themselves. Putting an appropriate price on
carbon, through taxes, trading or regulation, means that people pay the
full social cost of their actions. This will lead individuals and
businesses to switch away from high-carbon goods and services, and to
invest in low-carbon alternatives.
The
establishment of common incentives across different sectors is
important for efficiency. The overall structure of incentives, however,
will reflect other market failures and complexities within the sectors
concerned, as well as the climate change externality.
The
private sector is the major driver of innovation and the diffusion of
technologies, such as low-carbon vehicles, around the world. But
governments can help to promote international collaboration to overcome
barriers to technology development. In fact the president’s State of
the Union speech earlier this year outlined plans to improve
efficiency, reduce emissions and improve energy security particularly
in the transport sector. Energy efficiency standards in such large
markets can stimulate innovation and influence markets throughout the
world.
Jonathan
B. Tourtellot, director at Center for Sustainable Destinations,
National Geographic Society, Washington DC: The growing "Don't fly"
movement holds serious dangers for environmental benefits (e.g.
wildlife preservation) in sustainable-tourism destinations dependent on
airlift. Also, the public has unclear impressions of what types of air
travel and planes are least and most harmful re climate change.
Comment?
Nick Stern replies:
Jonathan, the first element of mitigation policy is carbon pricing.
Greenhouse gases are, in economic terms, an externality: those who
produce greenhouse-gas emissions are bringing about climate change,
thereby imposing costs on the world and on future generations, but they
do not face the full consequences of their actions themselves.
Putting
an appropriate price on carbon – explicitly through tax or trading, or
implicitly through regulation – means that people are faced with the
full social cost of their actions. This will lead individuals and
businesses to switch away from high-carbon goods and services, and to
invest in low-carbon alternatives. Economic efficiency points to the
advantages of a common global carbon price: emissions reductions will
then take place wherever they are cheapest. The cheapest reductions may
not be in aviation.
However,
the second element of climate-change policy is technology policy,
covering the full spectrum from research and development, to
demonstration and early stage deployment. The development and
deployment of a wide range of low-carbon technologies, including in the
aviation industry, is essential in achieving the deep cuts in emissions
that are needed.
Dr. M Stewart: What should I say to those who firmly believe that global warming is not real?
Nick Stern replies: Dr. Stewart, please refer to my answer to James from NY, who asks a similar question.
Harry
C. Blaney III, senior fellow, Center for International Policy, Foreign
Service Officer (Ret.), Washington, DC: First, many thanks for your
vital report and your earlier talks on climate change and urge need for
action. We need to hear your voice even more now that our political
debate is “warming” up. I understand that you are now associated with
LSE and hope this will be a platform for further shaping the global
response to this crisis.
Would
you specifically now suggest as the best international and national
strategy for the United States post 2008, to adapt to not only address
this issue but also be again an effective leader in practical
environmental solutions as it was decades ago? Lastly, will Britain,
under Gordon Brown, be even more a leader on this issue? Will the EU
also commit to an all out effort?
Nick Stern replies:
Thanks for writing in Harry, we will not be able to solve this problem
without US leadership. This can be done most cost-effectively through a
global, coordinated set of mandatory actions, ranging from carbon
pricing to investment in low-carbon technology, to scaling up financial
flows for clean development in developing countries.
The
UK, domestically, as a member of a EU, and as part of the wider
international community, has and continues to be a leader on finding
solutions to climate change. The EU recently committed to a 20%
reduction below 1990 levels in carbon emission by 2020, as well as a
20% by 2020 renewable energy target, and 20% by 2020 energy efficiency
target. The EU has committed to accelerating its emissions reduction
target to 30% if other developed countries will bring similar
commitments to the table.
David
Holzman, Lexington, MA: The US is the fastest growing industrialized
nation. A recent study by the Center for Immigration Studies, relying
on census data, says that in 50 years the US population will have grown
from a little more than 300 million today, to 462 million (about one
third due to native increase and two thirds to immigration). How will
that growth affect US efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions?
Nick Stern replies:
David, the UN projects world population to increase from 6.5 billion in
2005 to 9.1 billion in 2050 in its medium variant and still to be
increasing slowly then (at about 0.4% per year), despite projected
falls in fertility. The average annual growth rate from 2005 to 2050 is
projected to be 0.75%; the UN’s low and high variants give
corresponding rates of 0.38% and 1.11%. Population growth rates will be
higher among the developing countries, which are also likely in
aggregate to have more rapid emissions growth per head. This means that
emissions in the developing world will grow significantly faster than
in the developed world, requiring a still sharper focus on emissions
abatement in the larger economies like China, India and Brazil.
Climate
change itself is also likely to have an impact on energy demand and
hence emissions, but the direction of the net impact is uncertain.
Warmer winters in higher latitudes are likely to reduce energy demand
for heating, but the hotter summers likely in most regions are likely
to increase the demand for refrigeration and air conditioning.
Richard:
The report on climate change by the UK Parliament’s House of Lords
Select Committee on Economic Affairs (2005) criticized the UN’s
Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change for its bias, called for an
independent review of climate science, and declared that it would be
cost effective to deal with effects of any climate change and to ignore
calls for actions such as the Kyoto Protocol. The UK government
responded to that report by asking you to assess the costs if all
‘worst-case’ scenarios for global warming were to come true, and you
did this in the report you published in November 2006.
Subsequently, several ‘Green’ groups have claimed the ‘Stern Report’
provides ‘proof’ that man-made global warming is a problem. But
it does not. Your report merely assesses the costs if all
‘worst-case’ scenarios for global warming were to come true.
In
reality, there is no evidence for man-made global warming: all recent
climate changes are within the range of natural changes that have
happened in the past (anyone who doubts this should read the recent
report of the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, IPPCC). A
claim that man-made global warming exists is merely an assertion: it is
not evidence and it is not fact. And the assertion does not
become evidence or fact by being voiced, written in words, or written
in computer code.
So, why have you failed to repudiate claims that the ‘Stern Report’ provides proof that man-made global warming is a problem?
Nick Stern replies: Richard, The Stern Review
was commissioned in July 2005 and required to report in the autumn of
2006, ahead of the IPCC’s Fourth Assessment Report (AR4). It was clear
during the writing of the Review that the science had moved
on since the IPCC’s Third Assessment Report (TAR), and that the
economic literature had not yet fully reflected the scientific
advances. The first chapter of the Review therefore set out
our own understanding of the key findings and directions from the IPCC
TAR and from more recent peer-reviewed scientific literature.
The
IPCC’s Working Group on the science of climate change has now published
its Summary for Policymakers. The IPCC has confirmed that there is now
very high confidence that human activity is warming the climate, and
that human influences are likely to have been at least five times
greater than those due to solar variations. There is now very little
justification for believing that the scientific understanding of
climate change is fundamentally flawed, or that the remaining areas of
uncertainty imply that current knowledge is inadequate as a basis for
drawing conclusions for policy. The fact that the IPCC 4AR drew similar
conclusions to us was no surprise as we drew on the same body of
evidence and consulted the same experts in the field.
The Stern Review
did not select the studies with worse case scenarios. It used only
peer-reviewed science and all key scientific assumptions have since
been endorsed by the Working Group 1 report by IPCC. The Stern Review only summarised the science. The IPCC remains the most comprehensive summary of the science and the Review team took advice from its contributing scientists to ensure that the Review was based on the best available science.
William
Blackburn, William Blackburn Consulting, Ltd., Long Grove, IL: We know
of several pronounced periods of warming in the past, although none as
great as we are seeing to day. What brought them about? What brought
about the ice ages?
Nick Stern replies:
William, an overwhelming body of scientific evidence indicates that the
Earth’s climate is rapidly changing, predominantly as a result of
increases in greenhouse gases caused by human activities.
Human
activities are changing the composition of the atmosphere and its
properties. Since pre-industrial times (around 1750), carbon dioxide
concentrations have increased by just over one-third from 280 parts per
million (ppm) to 380 ppm today, predominantly as a result of burning
fossil fuels, deforestation, and other changes in land-use. This has
been accompanied by rising concentrations of other greenhouse gases,
particularly methane and nitrous oxide.
There
is compelling evidence that the rising levels of greenhouse gases will
have a warming effect on the climate through increasing the amount of
infrared radiation (heat energy) trapped by the atmosphere: “the
greenhouse effect”. In total, the warming effect due to all (Kyoto)
greenhouse gases emitted by human activities is now equivalent to
around 430 ppm of carbon dioxide (hereafter, CO2 equivalent or CO2e)
and rising at around 2.3 ppm per year. Current levels of greenhouse
gases are higher now than at any time in at least the past 650,000
years.
But
I am not a scientist and am not qualified to give you the answers to
your more complex scientific questions. However, I can recommend the
websites of renowned scientific institutions such as the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the UK’s Hadley Centre and Tyndall Centre, the Royal Society, and the US National Academy of Sciences.
I am sorry that I have to stop here. I have very much enjoyed answering your questions. Thank you to everyone who wrote in.
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